Hello Mr. Hari,
Your site and content was great. Your explanation was very logical and it
really gave a different perspective of things. I would like to mentioned that
you Aum construction from crucifix and crescent, is that relevant? The reason being,
the Aum, doesn't have to be constructed from both. and we know the origin
of crucifix came because jesus was crucified in a crucifix. So, it looks like,
the last para is irrelevant, as there is
1) no causative relationship between these two
2) aum is much more than a combination of these two. This reduces the significance
of Aum and for whatever it stands for
3) we are not trying to prove ourselves christianity or islam. I would really
appreciate if you consider this and remove this reference or mention a word
about what you were trying to do there. Otherwise, your entire site was great
and keep it up.
Thanks a lot.
Ramkumar Sridharan
Dear Ramkumar,
Thank you very much for your feedback. I am really happy to note that you
found my site informative.
I understand your reasoning on the Aum animation and agree with you partly.
I guess I have not made myself clear as to the true intent of that animation
and hence the fault is mine.
You are absolutely right in saying that Aum need not be constructed from the crucifix and the crescent giving the impression that it is derived from these two symbols since that reduces the significance of Aum. The intention was not for such a conclusion to be drawn. The real intent of the animation was to symbolically suggest that the concept of God set out in Christianity (represented by the cross) and Islam (crescent and star) is incomplete when compared to the absolute knowledge of the Vedas (Aum). The intention was not to suggest a synthesis of Christianity and Islam would yield the canons Hinduism. I am very sorry if that is what that animation conveyed to you.
Having said that, I do believe that there is more to the choice of the cross and crescent as these religion's icons than merely the fact that Christ died on the cross and Islam follows the lunar calendar. I do believe that there are forces beyond our comprehension that drive us to make our choices. For instance, Christianity could have chosen the Holy Grail, the Sacred Heart of Jesus or the star that heralded the birth of Christ as their symbols instead of choosing such a distressing symbol as the cross, which was an instrument of torture and death. It is like the people who revered Gandhiji idolizing a miniature replica of the pistol that killed him and carrying it as a locket!
I do suggest in my opening paragraph: "... mathematical interpretations (in the case of Christianity & Islam) of the religion's fundamental icons that seem to suggest that there may be more to the choice of the religion's symbols than mere theological history and opportunistic proselytization." So why was the cross chosen? Perhaps one may rightly argue that the cross represented a most powerful symbol for proselytization, reminding the prospective Christian that Christ died for his "sins" and thus subjecting him to a crude but effective form of psychological blackmail. I do not contest that theory and find in it a valid and probable explanation. But I would like to propose a softer alternative theory. One which looks at this whole business of religions from a more holistic perspective. One that brings forth the underlying interconnectivity of the major religions (I have considered only Hinduism, Christianity and Islam here; although I accept Buddhism and Judaism as major religions, I am not discussing them since I consider Buddhism as an offshoot to Hinduism and Judaism's closeness to Christianity).
Being a Hindu, I believe in unseen forces and realms in our midst that somehow influence our decisions and actions. After all actions begin in the minds of men. And what are minds, but intangibilities that can perhaps be influenced by other intangibilities (beyond our senses and physical instruments) that we know nothing of. I must now stress that this does not mean that every seed of thought that germinates in our mind is influenced by these unseen forces; a certain latitude is definitely there. In fact, I feel that the vast majority of our thoughts that influence our personal karma are mostly our own devoid of any outside influence. But those high level ideas, those revolutionary concepts that become milestones in our history are triggered by the unseen realms. Hence such revolutionaries (be it in any field), who take up volumes of our history are but vessels to these phantom forces. Let us take the case of the Islamic crescent (and star) and investigate how it came to represent the religion. I am reproducing the following lines from an Islamic website that traces the rise of the crescent as Islam's symbol:
"It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty."
So it all started as a dream in a man's mind! Despite having more relevant symbols such as the cubical Ka'aba, the Arabesque 'Alla', the numerical Bismillah'ur Rahman ur'Rahim (sometimes denoted as 786), the humble crescent was adopted as the overarching symbol of Islam!
The adoption of the cross as the symbol of Christianity did not happen immediately after the crucifixion of Christ. In fact there are many theories as to how the cross went on to become the icon of Christianity. One of the widely accepted ones is in 312 C.E., Constantine, ruling the area now known as France and Britain, headed out to war against his brother-in-law, Maxentius, of Italy. En route he reportedly saw a vision-a cross on which were the words "Hoc vince," meaning, "By this conquer." After his victory, Constantine made the cross the standard of his armies. When Christianity later became the state religion of the Roman Empire, the cross became the symbol of the church.
So again it is a vision experienced by a man! So isn't it rather a strange co-incidence that of all the symbols these religions could have chosen they chose the very two symbols that could together represent the Gaussian plane of Aum representing all Existence and Non-existence?
So much for Christianity and Islam and their symbols. Now let us take a step back and explore the connectivity of Hinduism with these two religions. Before I continue, I must warn you that what you are going to read may appear to you as quite abhorrent. These are not exactly my ideas and have been discussed in detail in other websites as well. Please approach it with an open mind.
We all know that the two major deities of Hinduism are Krishna (incarnation of Maha Vishnu) and Shiva. And the two major figures of Christianity and Islam are Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammed. There some striking parallels between Krishna and Christ as well as Shiva and Mohammed. These are available in the internet if you do a search.
Some of the parallels between Krishna and Christ are:
1. Both names have similar consonants (Kris)
2. Both were born under very trying circumstances.
3. The birth of both figures were foretold
4. The ruler of the land wanted both the babies killed and decreed large scale
infanticide.
5. One lived in the midst of cowherds and the other in the midst of shepherds
6. Both exhibited large scale miracles.
7. Both were considered the embodiment of love.
Some of the parallels between Shiva and Mohammed are:
1. Both Shiva and Mohammed are connected to the crescent moon (Shiva has the
crescent moon in his hair and also on the Shiva Linga, while the symbol of
Islam is the crescent moon).
2. The name Mohammed itself is considered a twisted version of Mahadev.
3. The Holy Ka'aba of Mecca was a Shiva temple
4. The Sang-i-Aswad of the Ka'aba is a Shiva Linga
So it seems to me that the Vedic religion of Hinduism is the substratum on which other religions exist. Hinduism is like the ocean and the other religions are like the waves. They may rise and attain their crests of glory, but will fall and merge into the vast ocean.
Please explain why you think Mathematics is important in the context of spirituality.
Ashuthosh
"Every religion is only evolving a God out of the material man, and the
same God is the inspirer of all of them"
Hi Ashuthosh,
Although it may seem a trifle presumptuous, in today's context, when people
are being divided by religion, something so uniformly accepted like Mathematics
can indeed be the path to God. Not that there are no other paths to God. In
fact, as God, the paths to God too are infinite. In a way, the passage by
Swami Vivekananda that you had attached, seems to support this-"Every
religion is only evolving a God out of the material man, and the same God
is the inspirer of all of them". Extending Swamiji's argument we can
deduce that the Religions created by the material man will innately have his
imperfections. Hence such religions shall be divisive to the many and useful
only to the few. Such religions shall contain paths to God but shall also
contain other things as well.
But Mathematics, abstract and unauthored, beyond time and space shows you
God without the clouded lens of religion. The Mathematics I am implying is
of a spiritual kind which is not just the study of numbers that point to God
but also of a more experiential type that takes you to Him. It goes beyond
the conventional idea of Mathematics that merely alludes to the analogies,
to where our yogic paths are expressed as mathematical ideas.
I WRITE THIS E-MAIL BECAUSE IT HAS SUCH IMPORTANCE TO ME. I AM IN A SEACH
FOR THE CREATOR AND BELIEVE IN YOUR WRITINGS. WOULD I BE WRONG TO ASSUME THAT
MOSES MAY HAVE KNOWN THE "INNER KNOWLEDGE".......AS IT RELATES TO
GOD.
A TRUE STORY IS WORTH TELLING HERE.........SEVERAL YEARS BACK I WAS IN A CHURCH
ALL ALONE.......A MAN WALKED IN AND SAT NEAR ME. WE ENGAGED IN CONVERSATION
AND HE STATED: "I HAVE COME A LONG WAY, AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT WHEN
YOU THINK OF GOD, YOU MUST THINK IN MATHEMATICAL TERMS. I THOUGHT HE WAS ODD
FOR TELLING ME THAT.....FOR HE SAID IT LIKE HE WAS RELATING VERY IMPORTANT
INFORMATION TO ME. THE PIECES HAVE NOW FELL INTO PLACE. IT IS SAID THAT WHEN
THE STUDENT IS 'READY" ....THE TEACHER WILL APPEAR, MY DEAR FRIEND, IF
I MAY CALL YOU THAT, WOULD YOU GUIDE ME? I KNOW YOU MUST BE VERY BUSY........BUT,
COULD YOU PLEASE TRY. BECAUSE OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO ME, THROUGHOUT
MY LIFE TIME, I KNOW IT MUST HAVE MEANING. I ALSO FEEL AND BELIEVE THAT "GOD'S
NUMERICAL FORMULA EXISTED WITHIN VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE THROUGHOUT TIME...
DAVID... JESUS... ETC. I DO NOT THINK OF MYSELF AS "IMPORTANT"..........BUT
ALSO REALIZE THAT GOD HAS A "GOD PLAN" IN EFFECT. I FEEL I AM WITHIN
THAT PLAN?
Seekingway
Dear friend,
Let me first thank you for your email. The most important thing one needs when one embarks on a search for Truth is that fervent thirst for it. It should not be a halfhearted quest undertaken in shallowness. It should be borne out of a deep and uncompromising desire to know the Unknown. You should first ask yourself how serious you are in this quest for Truth. The next step, I believe, would be in unlearning much of that knowledge acquired and hitherto held unshakeable (and unquestionable) in the boundaries of our mind. Once the mind is emptied of such "baggage", it becomes more receptive for what is to come.
I do not know about Moses, but certainly many before our time have experience the Ultimate Reality in them and Moses may surely have been one of them.
Yes, I certainly agree with the man you met at your church regarding the Mathematical parallels of God.
As for your regarding me as a teacher, I am a bit amused; since I myself am only a student in this grand "University" of God. However, I shall try to give you whatever advice/guidance that I deem to be true. You are free to question/accept/reject it.
Regarding your belief that you are not "important", I beg to differ, since I believe that every soul in this world is equally important, since every soul contains that spark of the Infinite within them. Yes every soul including the most evilest terrorists to the most saintly of men.
Hi Shri Hari
Thank you for replying to me! I cannot remember the full extent of my email, but anyways, since I know that you are so keen, and respectable, I want to tell you something of myself. Right now I am a first year university student in London, Ontario, Canada. I was raised as a staunch Hindu, and had dear respect for ISKCON as well. Anyways, for the last couple of years I have been researching Hinduism, amongst other religions, and have found so many inconsistencies and contradictions in our beliefs and texts. For example, our scriptures have contradicting views on vegetarianism. Moreover, you show magnificent creativity and superior knowledge in tying in how modern science can be correlated to so many aspects of our scriptures, namely the story of creation. Yet how could such knowledgeable sages and seers not know about the existence of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Our cosmology has 9 planets, but those include Sun and Moon and the imaginary Rahu and Ketu. Man I am so confused, nothing makes sense anymore. I know that underlyingly, our religion has so many virtues, but I cannot ignore all the wrongs in our religion! Such as the caste system. Hindu apologists dismiss it as a man-made system, others claim it is a God-given system that was perverted by man. Let's use Occam's Razor's law of parsimony and simplicity, isn't it most likely that man created this system, and that power-hungry Brahmins wrote the Bhagavad Gita to suit their needs? Respectable Hari, I am so confused. Please don't give me the clichéd responses that Hinduism is compatible with all religions, I just want some guidance. The other day my mom told me of an experience that she had in communicating with God in the form of Hanuman. Normally, from anyone else, I would dismiss this as a hallucination, or as an attempt to justify the religion, but it's my own mom! She wouldn't lie to me, I hope... But even so, how can all the other contradictions and outright wrongs be justified.
I eagerly look forward to your reply, dear Hari.
Umber Gosain
Dear Umber,
There is no religion that is infallible and Hinduism is no exception. There are many inconsistencies, half-truths, injustices and downright lies in Hinduism. But having said that it does not in any way diminish the greatness of Hinduism.
I remember many years ago, when I was a student, I had gone to see a Raj
Kapoor movie called "Ram Teri Ganga Maili", with my friends. The
movie was not very impressive in that it pandered to base sentiments. If my
memory is correct, it is the story of a woman, pure and chaste, living in
the foothills of the Himalayas (I think) coming to the city in search of her
lover. In the process she is defiled. Raj Kapoor tries to draw an analogy
between the river Ganges and the heroine's character whose name is also Ganga.
The river Ganges is also pure and crystal clear at the source and gathers
impurities as it winds it's way to its estuary. Like that are the religions
of man. Especially Hinduism which is recognised as the oldest. But I firmly
believe that the situation is not entirely lost. I support Galileo's conviction
that Mathematics is indeed the language of God. But I would like to go further
and say that not only is it the language of God, but it is also the Truth.
And not only is it the Truth, but it is God Itself. Here I have used the term
Mathematics rather loosely. Specifically I mean Numbers.
In many of our religions, especially Hinduism, where it is the most pronounced,
this Mathematical Truth is present, though veiled in symbolism and folklore.
Using Mathematics, I have merely tried to sift away the chaff of impurities
that Time had effected on the core truths of Hinduism.
So Umber, you need not lose hope just because you have found inconsistencies
and worse, injustices in Hinduism. Such things are there in all religions.
Try to understand the religion for its core principles.
In truth even religion is not strictly essential to find God. Since God delves in each of us, what we need is the impartial inquiry into the true nature of our being.
I really hope I have answered your question.
Hari
I like the short story published on sulekha which led me to your web site.
I liked the web site and like any typical malyali am an aspiring writer.
I was born and brought up bombay and currently live in USA. I am an atheist
and find it difficult to accept many concepts provided by religions. I have
a soft corner for buddhism and have been reading a little bit of Thich Nhat
hanh. I even tried my hand at Nicheren buddhism and in my earlier days rajneesh.(
as Pune was pretty close)
I would like to hear from you and have a dialogue.
Take care
Thomas
Hi Thomas,
Thank you for your feedback on my story and I am glad you liked it.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in being an atheist/agnostic. In fact,
some of my best friends don't believe in God. Given a choice between an
atheist and a fundamentalist (of any religion) I would always prefer to
befriend the unbeliever. The most important thing is to be a good human
being and personally, I have actually noticed that atheists tend to be better
human beings than strict adherents of religion. They are more open to discussion
and willing to change their viewpoints. Frankly, there have been moments
in my life too, when I have doubted my own convictions of a God!
I am not surprised that you have been attracted to Buddhism. Buddha Himself,
has never talked about God.
Regards,
Hari
